route_006 | HMD | June 2012

Entry tags:

how's my driving

HMD | June 2012

EVALUATE MY BATTLING!

TRAINER TIPS:
→ This is encouraged, not mandatory. We will not penalize you for not using it.
→ Feel free to link your personal HMDs if you would like, just in case someone doesn't want to use the mass HMD post.
→ this is more for actual critique and discussion. Please don't just blindly praise a person or just call them horrible. If someone's doing a wonderful job, you can tell them, just tell them why, or even where they're showing off bonus perks. If someone's doing a not-so-wonderful job, tell them why, give them things to improve on if you can. Examples, links, things that can give them something to work on. Meaning, no bashing, flaming, or nasty behavior. Please keep it civil.
→ Anonymous is turned on! But note: anonymous is a privilege, not a right. If it's being abused to bash players, please be sure to let one of us know and we'll step in or freeze threads if necessary. If anonymous is abused too much, it will be turned off for the next HMD.
→ Don't take this all too personally! Remember that roleplay is a game, and crit is supposed to help, not make you feel horrible. No one is perfect, we've all got room to improve. Please keep that in mind.

→ MOD/GAME HMD

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I'm just an uninvolved player as you are, so feel free to take this with a grain of salt, but as much as I agree that grimdark or triggering characters need to be played carefully, I just can't get behind the idea that the mere presence of them being in a game, being played, is going to need to require a bunch of IC safeguards.

Just as it would be ooc for characters to ignore the post, it might also be ooc for a troubling event to be broadcast to a select few people (who might not have anything to do with the characters involved but still want to get involved themselves).

Ultimately, this post was FRIENDSLOCKED, PLACED BEHIND A CUT, AND HAD A TRIGGER-WARNING.

Even if ICly the post is being placed on a public venue, the sheer number of ooc measures taken to prevent anyone from having to look at it if they don't want to be involved should really speak for themselves. Things happen in RP every day that make people uncomfortable (myself included, some of them even in this game) and sometimes it's not always possible to 'stay IC' while still staying comfortable. Posts like this don't happen often in Route, so it's not a matter of having to constantly ignore upsetting material (if that were the case, I'd say yeah, it WOULD be a question of 'why is this character even here'), it's a rare occurrence that was planned in advance (even if it was apparently planned poorly), locked and warned for. Bad things happen in real life and in RP. The nice thing about RP is that we can have them happen but give people the ooc option to NOT LOOK, to avoid the players in question, to say that their characters were otherwise occupied or did not see it. They're not glued to their 'Gears 24/7, and because it's NOT a constant occurrence there's nothing 'stretching' about just saying the network glitched out and your character never saw the post.

Yes, word of mouth happens, but word of mouth would happen regardless of whether the post was publicized to the whole network or not and you can still just ask people to not have their characters mention it to yours. I have done this before when I found material upsetting and didn't want my character involved and the vast majority of players have always been happy to help me stay out of it, the players of said material included.

Forcing the players (who took care to make sure no one would have to look oocly if they didn't want to) to alter the events for IC reasons, imo, comes way too close to "I don't like having this in the game so you need to play it differently and make your characters ooc so that mine can stay IC" even though you as a player were not required to be involved.

I understand that you in NO way intended it to come off this way and that it's obviously a sensitive subject for you, but comparing locked, cut content that had a trigger warning on it to a REAL-LIFE situation that can't be escaped from actually very much offends me, as it comes off as dramatic and emotionally manipulative. Putting on headphones to escape an upsetting situation in real life just outside your door is nothing, NOTHING like scrolling past a hidden post on the internt that the creators have explicitly warned you about and have no desire to make you participate in or even read it.

I have triggers too and there is a very, very big difference between fearfully trying to drown them out in real life in a situation I can't actually get out of beyond going behind a door or flimsily building up a mental wall, and having someone playing something out in a game I'm in, where I am not in any way being forced to deal with it at all, even if ICly I have a character who would want to help. They don't have to see it, and neither do I.

I guess this got kind of tl;dr too, but I felt it was really important to say. I think your heart is in the right place and I know you didn't mean to upset with this, but I'm actually very uncomfortable being in a game where something I might want to play out with all the appropriate ooc warnings and safeguards would be compared to an abusive situation that cannot be escaped IRL. This doesn't sound like an environment I'd feel okay about playing in, especially with what feels like an emotionally-manipulative argument like that being made for what is essentially policing content that didn't break any rules and was warned for.

well. i would personally argue about whether or not it was ic for the character to carry it out like this, myself.

there's actually a situation in fate/zero similar to the one that was played out here where caster murders several children in order to get saber to admit she's jeanne. he does it by bringing the children directly to her and threatening/murdering them in front of her instead of making a public spectacle out of it. he doesn't exactly try very hard to cover his tracks which causes another character to catch on to what he's doing, but it is very clearly meant to be set up for saber only.

so yeah. caster contacting robin privately would have actually matched his canonical modus operandi better and would have been more comfortable for the rest of the game. it would have made for a situation that would have allowed for 'rescuer' characters to opt into the plot but the rest of the game could ignore.

also keep in mind that due to confusing communication, it was repeatedly implied that there would be more broadcasts like this one. after a while, if your character had close contact with robin or any of the victims you would really have to push it to ignore this plot, which is seriously uncomfortable.

honestly, nobody is saying that these plots aren't allowed. i would personally compare it to juggling. in a standard plot, you're juggling with soft, foam balls, so you can do whatever you want, really. you could juggle right in the middle of a crowd. if you miss a ball or accidentally throw it at someone the worst you'll have to deal with is them getting annoyed.

in a plot that involves sensitive material, you're juggling knives or chainsaws or something, which looks really cool if you pull it off right but you have to be way more careful about it. you need to have a lot of space around you so you don't actually hurt anyone, and other people involved in your act should be people who you know can handle a thing like this.

Thanks for clarifying, OP, I understand and think you have a very good point!

I admit it was mostly the unanon player's comparison to RL triggering situations and implication that playing out such material in 'IC Public' at ALL was somehow like dealing with a triggering situation right outside the bedroom door and being unable to get away with it that spurred me to comment. It was... very, very upsetting to me.

I wasn't planning on getting involved in this discussion at all originally, but reading that felt sort of like a slap in the face and, I felt, crossed some serious lines when it comes to this debate about the original post being problematic.

You, the OP, have some very reasonable arguments that I don't see any problem with at all.

*get away FROM it

Whoops.

I admit that the comparison was problematic, but I have some very, very specific triggers in regards to the situation as-presented. You have no knowledge of me or my situation, and you have no way to know that those situations aren't comparable for me, specifically. To say nothing of the fact that as the OP stated, it was incredibly OOC for the character in question - I play from Fate/Zero, I'm aware of Caster's modus operandi. The result was that this felt like it was done entirely for shock value, from right out of nowhere, and when I asked one of the mods privately whether this was going to be an ongoing thing I got an incredibly vague answer that did not tell me whether this was going to happen again or not, coupled with a literal "Well, I'm sorry you were offended." Part of my issues regard having the aftermath of my situation completely disregarded. So yes, that is what it feels like to me, individually, because of my specific situation.

I was feeling incredibly unsafe in the game due to the fact that I mentioned I was uncomfortable and it was not made plain at any time that this was going to be a rare/one-off thing. If anything it was implied more heavily that it would be ongoing, given that it was supposedly IC for Caster to do such things. I wanted to know if this would happen again out of nowhere, and I got a shrug, a vague response, and whether it was intentional or not, a non-apology that put everything on me. That isn't an atmosphere I could feel safe in at all.

Obviously I don't know what kind of conversation went on between you and the mods, and I'm very sorry that your triggers are serious enough that this situation feels unsafe to you.

But as I stated, your response, too, was very problematic and actually quite offensive. I apologize for this because I fully believe you are sincere and earnest in what you are saying and didn't mean to hurt anyone, but I still cannot take a comparison to RL triggering situations to one that you (general you) can reasonably avoid seriously, whether or not it is bending character or seeing ooc behavior in the 'problematic' post in question. Being stuck in a room while people scream and shout outside the door is horrible and upsetting, as can being in a game with players who are doing something that you find uncomfortable, but they are honestly not the same.

Online posts are something that can be ignored, x'd out of, and avoided- even if it's frustrating and upsetting (and I fully believe that it is, so please don't think that I'm saying you should be completely fine and dandy with it.) to have to do so. Even if it's something that may be going on a lot, which judging from the responses here I do not think it is (regardless of whatever vague answers you were given, mods have responded here saying that they are working on a solution.). Players can be avoided, ooc contact can be cut off. It's a sucky situation all around, but there are solutions that don't involve anyone being forced to take part in a plot that upsets them.

Even if you have specific triggers that were set off by the post, it was still warned for, it was still hidden behind a cut, and it still had to be clicked on in order to be read at all. Even if it's extremely upsetting to you that it's happening at all, it is just flat-out not the same as being trapped in a bad situation IRL. No one in this game would ever find fault with you or anyone else for avoiding a plotline that makes you feel uncomfortable, because ultimately ooc comfort trumps being IC, always.

I understand that you had your reasons for making the comparison, but just as aspects of this situation have obviously been hurtful to you, that kind of comparison is hurtful to me, and possibly even other people with triggers/who have been in abusive situations IRL as well. I can't speak for them, obviously, but just as you have stated your feelings, I am stating mine.

It's true, I don't know anything about your personal life situation and I never claimed to, but no matter what circumstances are behind it, I personally don't feel safe or comfortable in a game where extremely problematic arguments like that are being made against posts that, while possibly still problematic themselves, still had ooc warnings and measures taken to keep them from being forced on people who did not want to be involved. Even if you intended it to demonstrate the weight of your feelings, on the flip-side it comes off as making light of those real-life situations by comparing it to an avoidable one online.

All of this. I don't get why people couldn't listen to the trigger warnings in place and just avoid what was there. It isn't like you're being forced in the situation, you don't have to read it.

Like Sunny and the anon above me said, nobody will blame anyone for avoiding stuff that's not their triggers. The post upset me too but I actually listened to the warning and decided against reading it. If it affects my character, I'm just going to ask my CR or people talking about it to not bring it up around me or my characters.

Honestly bringing up your personal trauma after neglecting the warnings provided makes it appear you have no real reason to back up yourself up and instead have to draw pity from your own experiences. This post was handled properly to prevent this sort of thing from happening and you ignored it.

If you can't handle this kind of content, maybe you should consider a game where there are strong rules in place opposed to it or learn how to better protect yourself by not reading it in the first place. At least learn how to approach it without making it all about yourself. It's disappointing you went to the measures of bullying someone because of your own neglect to your comfort levels.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

HMD | June 2012

no subject

OP

Re: OP

SA

no subject

ayrt

+1

+1